Can one celebrate their own birthday on December 25th? Can one celebrate an anniversary on December 25th? You make it seem as though every December 25th celebration must be about your own religious holiday…how ethnocentric.

We have seen by means of a hypothetical of a very good deed that this idea is nonsense. On the contrary, for any action, big or small, the result is either good or bad, positive or negative, according to its effect without regard to the religion or lack thereof of the agent.

In this topic, it does not matter whether the impersonal Universe recognizes anyone as significant. The eventual exhaustion of the Sun is irrelevant. Nietzsche is irrelevant.

It’s a CHRISTIAN holiday celebrating the birth of Christ. What don’t you understand about that?

Religious holidays are not exclusively religious. They also have a social component: the interactions among the participants which have nothing to do with religion, which are based on family and friendship. And where a large majority of the population are of the same religion (in America, anyway), the holidays of that religion acquire a secular aspect as well.

Families and other social groups do not typically exclude from these celebrations those members who have discarded religion or who have chosen a different belief system. Those members attend the celebrations for the sake of the social interaction although they may abstain from the explicit religious ritual.

As an analogy, consider: If I attend a friend’s wedding in a church, synagogue, or mosque, I am not celebrating the religion of that institution; I am celebrating a particular happy event in my friend’s life. There is likely to be a religious ceremony in connection with the marriage; I can be as polite a guest during this as during the rest of the event. It does not compromise my principles to recognize that other people have religious beliefs.

The continued use of Christmas decorations in a non-theist’s own house and the giving of gifts at Christmas time probably reflect the social and secular traditions that have developed around the holiday in our culture.

There are, in any case, some philosophical principles attributed to Jesus to which anyone might subscribe and which anyone might choose to celebrate without accepting the divine and magical characteristics which are also ascribed to him. It is possible that Jesus was a great man and an important philosopher, even though he was not a god. It would be a shame to throw out the good ideas with the bad. So we can recognize that he made some real contribution to human society without worshiping him.

The word “meaningful” when modifying “gift” has no relation to the “meaning of life” nor does it have anything to do with any god or the absence of gods. The meaning in the gift is social.

A gift has meaning to the giver and the recipient when it serves as a tangible expression of mutual knowledge and caring. It requires that the giver know what the recipient likes and perhaps needs, and his or her taste, philosophy, personality, etc.; and the gift must be one which is appropriate for the giver to give to the recipient.

It is almost impossible for strangers to exchange meaningful gifts.

So in other words: Life has meaning because we find meaning with our loved ones and our chosen profession. Thus we fear death because we do not want to deprive our loved ones and the consumers of our given professions our VALUE as suppliers in their lives.

This makes no sense whatsoever. If this were true we would have no homeless people. They would have killed themselves off a long time ago. Most have no loved ones and no professions, yet they still fear death just like you do, if not more.

Have you considered being an agnostic for a while? It seems to me you’re not asking questions any longer as you r blog purports. You seem to have formulated an opinion on everything without even assessing your own rationale. Why not ask some more questions in a polite manner as your blog originally set out to do, and await the evidence before jumping to conclusions?

Ber said “Just because their isn’t an eternity waiting after death doesn’t somehow make life worthless. It only makes it shorter.”

What do you mean by “eternity waiting after death?” You make life and eternity sound like two different things. Is this an idea you got from the Bible or a pastor or…? I would be interested to know.

As for this life having meaning without God, I don’t know what meaning your referring to. What does life MEAN without God? Nothing. It is without meaning. It is here today, and gone tomorrow. Your idea of meaning comes from the impression of Christianity on our society. You think just because your scrawled “darkness” on your cell wall that somehow the light is gone. It is not. It is a part of you. You will either go down fighting it like a swim against a million mile current, or you will begin swimming with it again. Just “be’ing” and “passing time” is not an option as you have already found. Face it your blog started as an innocent quest for knowledge through asking of poignant questions for discussion, but it has now turned into an attack on God. See how that works? We’re either on one side or the other. No one rides the fence for too long on this one. (By the way this is all by design )

Be said: “Belief in God actually devalues life on earth. In Christian theology, life on earth is a mere temporary stay in a horrible place as we await paradise.

Where in the world did you get this idea? What “Christian theology” have you been reading? My God lowered himself in humility to the earth and conquered death for me so that I might “have life and life more abdundantly.” God’s beauty ABOUNDS on this beautiful planet in everything that is GOOD. God’s love is everywhere. This life is not “horrible” in the minds of any Christian I know. It is glorious, and only a small taste of the next chapter of it.

Be said “So your life is only valuable if you’re good enough and faithful enough to get into heaven. Otherwise earth is a place where a fallen angel freely tempts and torments us before we’re tossed into hell for eternity.”

Absolutely FALSE on every level. In Christianity EVERY life is of immense value–even the lives of those who reject God, and even the lives of those whose lives are taken before God has a chance to breathe life into them. Furthermore, no one is “tossed” into hell. Hell is a place people freely choose to go. Picture a left door and a right door. Choose the right door and you choose light; choose the left door and you choose darkness. God doesn’t torture anyone. They choose to torture themselves. Hell is very simply the ultimate outcome for those who reject God and live their lives in opposition to him without repentance. Picture a life with no love, no warmth, no light, no life (all the things that God represents), and you have pictured hell. Many of us have experienced it on earth after losing loved ones, heartbreak, war. We’ve already been given a taste of both heaven and hell. I choose heaven. You can have hell—-but I really hope you choose differently.

>strong>Be said “My life is valuable to me, and I enjoy living it in a reality void of ancient superstition. Who wouldn’t want to live forever? But praying to invisible gods and faith in the words of primitive men doesn’t automatically make it true.”

You call **LOVE** “ancient superstition?

The word of “primitive men”?? Words like “I love you”??

Be said, “By the way, I also celebrate Christmas. Regardless of the religious source of the holiday, it has become a secular day for family to gather and spend time together. Why would I care if the holiday began to celebrate two completely different Gospel stories for the birth of a Jewish guy? Presents are fun, holiday food is good and wine is always enjoyable. I’m sure you’ll see this as lacking “principles.” But only from your religious perspective. Life is what you make of it, and most people spend way too much time worrying about things that don’t matter.”

PLEASE don’t get me wrong: I LOVE that you all “celebrate” CHRISTmas. I’d be the one without principles if I didn’t

Peace,

Mark

Nope. Was referring to blogs far more vitriolic than yours. Yours frustrates me for another reason, and that is because you cannibalize the Bible to mean whatever you wish for it to mean to suit your given mood for the day.

****Beattitude said “Is my blog incendiary? Yes. When someone challenges the religious belief system of other people, they tend to get upset. And it results in very interesting discussion.”

I would agree your blog is provocative, but not in the way you think it is.

****Beatiitude said: “Am I vitriolic? Yes, I am bitter that I wasted so much of my life worshiping an imaginary god. Now I share my thoughts and experiences with others.”

You are bitter that you subscirbed to the idea that you should love your neighbor as you love yourself??? You’re bitter about that? Wow. Apparently you’ve found a new one. “Degrade your neighbor’s beliefs and see how he reacts.” Reminds me of playing doorbell ditch as a kid. Curious: Why don’t you use your real name on your blog? Kind of hurts your credibility when you are anonymous…

****Beattitude said “Am I immature? Yes, I believe all men stop maturing at about age 13. You’re just in denial. ”

LOL. Where do you come up with this stuff? 13? Your poor wife.

I don’t follow you at all. What is ‘positive’ in this context? As opposed to what, negative? With no God, you don’t get to use these words in your arguments because you don’t subscribe to the idea of morality, and hence there is no “good” or “bad,” there is only customs and culture. Hence your contributions to this round blob can not be qualitative (good or bad) because without a model of moral supremacy in which to measure them against, this thing you and your contemporaries call “human goodness” is dead. Why? Because God is dead. Remember what Nietzsche said? God is dead. You killed him.

If that isn’t enough, from a scientific standpoint, what do you care about this round blob? Your contemporaries tell us its lifespan is finite. I just heard Christ Hitchens say a star exploded every second, and eventually our star (sun) will explode, too. Hence in this way of thinking this accidental blob is nothing but a mere grain of unremarkable sand on an endless beach of planets, many of which probably sustain life (and, according to your mentors, life more intelligent than ours—even though not a shred of evidence exists to support the idea that lifeforms supposedly millions of years more mature than us have attempted to colonize outside their own galaxy).

How perfectly ignorant of you to impose your altruism on this evolutionary process which–if it had the ability–would not even recognize you as anything more than a random mutation no more important to its “progress” (with an end goal of total destruction) than a common pig.

Just because their isn’t an eternity waiting after death doesn’t somehow make life worthless. It only makes it shorter.

Belief in God actually devalues life on earth. In Christian theology, life on earth is a mere temporary stay in a horrible place as we await paradise. So your life is only valuable if you’re good enough and faithful enough to get into heaven. Otherwise earth is a place where a fallen angel freely tempts and torments us before we’re tossed into hell for eternity.

My life is valuable to me, and I enjoy living it in a reality void of ancient superstition. Who wouldn’t want to live forever? But praying to invisible gods and faith in the words of primitive men doesn’t automatically make it true.

By the way, I also celebrate Christmas. Regardless of the religious source of the holiday, it has become a secular day for family to gather and spend time together. Why would I care if the holiday began to celebrate two completely different Gospel stories for the birth of a Jewish guy? Presents are fun, holiday food is good and wine is always enjoyable. I’m sure you’ll see this as lacking “principles.” But only from your religious perspective. Life is what you make of it, and most people spend way too much time worrying about things that don’t matter.

“I am thrilled to have found at least ONE blog where the author is not vitriolic, immature, and incendiary.”

I have to assume you comment was pointed at me as you recently boycotted my blog.

Is my blog incendiary? Yes. When someone challenges the religious belief system of other people, they tend to get upset. And it results in very interesting discussion.

Am I vitriolic? Yes, I am bitter that I wasted so much of my life worshiping an imaginary god. Now I share my thoughts and experiences with others.

Am I immature? Yes, I believe all men stop maturing at about age 13. You’re just in denial.

As to your question… my life has meaning (as you have defined above) because after I’m gone, I have left my ‘life’s work’ on this planet. I hope that what I do now, has a lasting, positive impact on the world. On the people, the environment, etc. That what I’ve done has brought the next generation something better than what was here before me.

Really, that’s it. Whether I believe I go somewhere after this or not, leaving a positive impact on the planet is what is important to me.